This is a copy of a letter I wrote to a grass roots activist center Sequoia and I visited last night. They showed a movie that was clearly against the industry as a whole, selectively showing BDSM scenes from kink.com and using those scenes to portray the porn industry as socially damaging and a facet of female degradation in which helpless women are forced to endure.
Lame, lame , lame. The woman that facilitated this movie, Penny, (advocate of right wing conservatism) is an ally of http://stoppornculture.org/ and wants to push for ordinances against the industry to our area. That’s her idea of sex worker activism. Enjoy.
This letter is to the charter of Night Heron and not to particular individuals. I’ve written to the group’s yahoo address without response.
We may not be attending future events or gatherings. From the movie last night, we question your support for the feminazi movement against women in the sex industry.
May I point out that the violent parts of yesterday’s movie were from a very small segment of the porn industry called BDSM yet lumped into a prejudiced “critical analysis” of the porn industry. Penny had to get an explanation of BDSM from your very own in house porn star, Sequoia Redd. You promote a movie shown by a woman who is clueless about what she opposes yet supports installation of ordinances that will make Sequoia’s chosen profession illegal, taking away her livlyhood and possibly leading to her incarceration. (At least she’ll have a place to show her art.) The violent clips came from one small part of a BDSM site called kink.com. At that site one can see that men are recipients of the same treatment in staged scenes as “submissives”, should anyone want to exercise complete thought in research.
When Sequoia offered to show a more complete and thorough explanation of the industry in a night’s presentation she was told it had to fit in with the group’s creed. The other movie did? It was right wing, conservative propaganda brought to you by the same mentality that is against pro choice, poorly done and very offensive to intelligent people in said industry. As was its condoning by a group promoting equality and tolerance.
Sequoia printed a lengthy list of sites that were very artistic and showed an empowering, creative and artistic edge to women in the sex industry and said it looked like people couldn’t wait to get it out of their hands. Is that a clue to the priorities of middle class white kids with guilt issues about their safety nets and inaction of their resources?
The sex industry is a lucrative alternative for women without safety nets, parents that give a fuck or eligability for financial aid, to low paying jobs where they endure sexual harrassment by men. It also falls under “life, liberty and the persuit of happiness”, part of your unalienable rights.
No one has the right to take that away from her or any woman that wants to use her sexuality to take money from patriarchal capitalists. Especially people unfamiliar with said industry (the ignorant and severely uninformed).
I have been ascossiated with the sex industry over 30 years from performer to logistical support. I have a daughter still in the mainsteam porn scene and a girlfriend who is an industry activist. I thoroughly support the promotion of the industy’s autonomy in order to protect the artistic right to freedom of expression and duely dissapointed at alleged activists to do otherwise.
Hawk
Whatever happens between consenting adults is fine with me. The government and everyone else should not be regulating anything that isn’t hurting anyone. It’s just another tool they use for control. I wish I had answers but I don’t. I appreciate everyone’s efforts to change things for the better and abhor those who do otherwise. Please share those lengthy Sequoia endorsed sex sites! Thanks!
I think something similar is happening in Australia right now,taking things out of context and making them law,whats really behind it,money and control,how to make more money and how can they control it,its a historically viable source for income in a time where income is scarce,force the industry into more of an underworld atmosphere to raise the risks and boost prices for someone with the motivation for control,which is money,at what point does art and porn separate or diverge,right now their using religion as a wedge but most religions arent against porn per say as anything in the wedding bed is inviolate or OK as long as they were married,what theyr trying to do is manage the temptation that their unable or unwilling to over come,but they dont respect anyone who believes differently than they do,which is also against the tenets of most religions,some day we’ll think more of each other than we think of ourselves or our apetites and it will just be CALLED LOVING.
I did get a comment from a person in Night Heron, however it was longer than any post I’ve written and basically saying I offended them. OK, we’ll agree we are all offended. (I feel so liberal now.)
I wrote back saying they should reserve diatribes for their blog (when of if they get one)and I would approve a comment more to the point. I’ll also approve it no matter how it comes off to me and how I offended them. I’m just not going to take the time to seek out valid points to their side as to save space and respect the time of the people who read it.
I hope they read the post proceeding this one and comment on it as well.
Here is a letter from a cousin and her view of what she sees as activism. It’s not for everyone. It’s a reminder for me and a few others.
Khogan,
Yo hu ah nee seh hweh koh teh shenah ket maiyo tumah noh ket mee. Nandehwah koh hez nah sahyu shee mee nainoh hewah ket naneh. Someyoh koh hahnehwah nahzmeetoh shee gee weh nah ket mak.
Tomyeh nah meh koh sednah shewah heh nah ket someyoh. Mojoweesh neh ket niangah hewah noneh sewah sho koh nan dai-yo. Noneh mahyee kehwah aonchitakneh koh teh shenah mahghan.
Pohpah tee eh yah woh koh maiyo tumah. Sequoia chigahumyah mahsayah! Jutah koh hee!
Pweah
It’s nice and a lot gets lost in translation but she made comments about women who chop off their hair and basically she sees what we call activism as an incomplete thought by action. I guess that doesn’t make sense in English. Kind of like talking about immigration laws and not asking people on reservations what they think.
Mahsaya has a lot of meanings to us. Peace, lover and a few others depending on how you use it. Chigahumyah can mean tornado, hurricane, severe storm or just “winds of change”. Chigahumyah mahsayah would be something like “tornado lover” or considering things, “sexual activist” since we don’t have a word for activists. “Jutah koh hee” is like Goddess bless you.
She signs her name “Little” and has an aversion to English like hippies to technology.
Pweah,
Noh ketoh ketgoh. Masnah haineh hwet mai keh noh shetgahnainoh. Mahsam nahneh chigahumyah. Naneh tetsoh monon gah haelah. Rahgorah keh hai noh.
Khogan
I’m saying that things are as they are and we are all part of the Great Dance. Everyone is something in the winds of change. The most important thing is to dance your dance and remember your part.
That’s y’alls timber nigger lesson fo da night, beeaahhch!
Point Paper Response
1. Deleting my original post (even though you invited comments on your blog) and making me write in point paper format is limiting my freedom of expression. I responded to you in the same format you used – letter. I am known for being long winded, but I do try to be thorough. Nonetheless, I have acquiesced your request. Let’s see if you censor me this time…
2. Just because you wish to simplify everything does not mean the issues at hand can be simplified so easily; life is rarely just black and white and you are intelligent enough to know that.
3. You use insults as a way of oppressing anyone who doesn’t agree with you thus attempting to undermine the validity of their views.
4. You also jump to conclusions about people too easily without basing it on research or fact.
5. Even though you may feel like your views aren’t being appropriately received doesn’t make it right to censor someone else’s views or disagreements or start insulting them. If you feel like the recipient of this sort of negativity then that certainly ought to be addressed, but in an appropriate fashion.
6. You have, by posting this on a blog, erroneously and somewhat publicly defamed the whole of The Night Heron, and thus me and my comrades and all of our hard work, and minimized its validity just because there was a disagreement and dispute with one person over one film showing that clearly everyone involved at The Night Heron does not agree with. That is logically fallacious and down right rude. We should have the right to defend ourselves against your accusations.
7. I was polite in everything I said and tried to be as objective and understanding as possible. You have done the opposite in how you have presented yourself and then have the audacity to call my response a diatribe, when it is really you that went on a diatribe. I was merely correcting your facts where you had them WRONG. A lengthy and thorough response does not a diatribe make, check your dictionary.
8. You brought people into the argument that had nothing to do with it by emailing the anti-racist reading group email list. Whether or not you meant to, you DID NOT email The Night Heron Yahoo account. Even if you had and your email hadn’t been read or even ignored, emailing the list you did is not appropriate and you should have known better.
9. The point of discussions held at the center is to discuss various aspects of the topics at hand from an activist perspective. I appreciate that you and Sequoia were there to represent a differing opinion. No one should be insulting anyone and if you or anyone else feels oppressed by someone else’s language, then you or that person should speak up and address it in an appropriate fashion. This can be difficult with sensitive subject matter but is well worth the effort. If everyone agrees with everything being said in a discussion, then what is the point in having it?
10. The Night Heron is a collective of individuals with a vast array of beliefs and opinions brought together for the common goal of building community and furthering justice and equality for all. We certainly do not all ascribe to the same beliefs as everyone else involved and it is an incredibly narrow view that sees it as such.
11. You are welcome to arrange an evening to host a discussion and or film showing that can elaborate on your views of the trade and continue this discussion as long as it is in a much more positive and respectful fashion.
12. Everything in life comes down to perspective and perception. The only way to make progress in understanding one another is through patience, courage and consideration. If you are unwilling to extend that courtesy to others, then why should they extend that to you?
13. In the debate world I come from, when one resorts to insults and name calling, then that person has just lost the debate. Regardless, calling someone ignorant and flinging insulting names like “feminazi” are not only uncalled for, but genuinely disrespectful. How does being rude help get your point across?
Hey Jordan,
I know we spoke today, but in regards to “13. In the debate world I come from, when one resorts to insults and name calling, then that person has just lost the debate. Regardless, calling someone ignorant and flinging insulting names like “feminazi” are not only uncalled for, but genuinely disrespectful. How does being rude help get your point across?”
Penny made a few comments during her presentation that I felt were cheap potshots at women who are happy in the industry. As a sex worker, I get tired of listening to other people speak about an industry and the people in it when they know nothing about it. She made a few comments about women feeling empowered by being sex objects were aiding the patriarchy and that she looks at certain images and feels like wretching. She made it clear that she wanted to start local activism with her Stop Porn Culture group and mentioned Andrea Dworkin working with the christian right to get city ordinances passed to outlaw porn.
To me, that is oppressive.
I didn’t delete his post and I was actually going to try and dig some valid points out of it if he didn’t write back. It’s the same long winded rambling but with numbers.
Not quite pointed style but I said would approve it so here it is.
The thing with the liberal activists is they can be rude and slanderous and it’s ok since they do it out of ignorance or in a passive/aggressive way with at feigned caring and sincere tone.
This guy wasn’t at the movie presentation. His numeration will make referencing easy.
Article 1: He’s concerned about freedom of expression and censoring yet the movie he missed was all about squashing the freedom of expression of artists of the adult industry (censorship) and the organization the facilitator promoted stoppornculture.org is all about anything against porn.
Article 2: The black and white of it was the movie was an ignorant portrayal of the porn industry for a right wing agenda.
Article 3: The comments made towards women in the industry by the facilitator was insulting at best. Starting a comment to a woman in the industry with “As a feminist I…” to a feminist in the industry could be insulting.
Article 4: Did that just happen at your meeting place in reference to an industry?
Article5: Those people couldn’t wait to get a list of creative and artistic adult sites out of their hands, why bother?
Article 6: I don’t want to take away any due credit to the group. I appreciate the rigorous set up of the space for that movie and whatever alleged research went into the discussion material. As an activists group, they do have a packed calendar of a variety of activities for this month. There’s a puppet show on the 12th, hoop making on the 18th and a socialist reading group on the 21st…..Check it out.
Article 7: Speaking of wrong, see said movie. Little or no research, wrong. Totally biased presentation in a space that claims they want to respect everyone, wrong. Endorsing a right wing hate group, wrong. I could go on.
Article 8: I did a cut and paste on the groups yahoo address. By the way, did you chastise Penny for adding the group in her letter to me? As far as knowing better: see all references to ignorant, biased, uninformed, right wing movie about porn.
Article 9: You are so off base.
Article 10: Sounds good until you guys play shit like that and belch out “beliefs and opinions brought together for the common goal of building community and furthering justice and equality for all” Busted homey.
Article 11: “as long as it is in a much more positive and respectful fashion.” Oh that will be easy. Is that to counter the intended negative and disrespectful fashion of the previous presentation? Whatever. Nice to see positivity and respect on today’s list.
Article 12: BINGO! Perfect placing. I’ll rest my case here.
Article 13: You’re from the debate world? Perhaps you would like to side Penny’s cause and I with the industry’s and we have a debate at the meeting place. I promise to give a full and factual presentation with references and figures. We would love to film it. I don’t mind doing it with Penny if you aren’t up for it.
Sometimes shaking the tree will fall those throwing at you from it.
I. Your conclusions about various topics are often purely non-sequiturs, here and throughout your blog and your attacks on us are neat looking strawmen you created and are convinced that’s the real deal. Anyone with sense can pick them out I’m sure. I would, but then you wouldn’t post it anyway, so what’s the point?
II. By the by, your statements and conclusions on that previous blog about anarchism are wrong and profoundly misguided, but what’s the point in addressing those when it will probably go over your word limit for comments. I guess you’re a little afraid to read any more than a few words or it might actually challenge your narrow presuppositions.
III. Just because we host various reading groups and family oriented activities shouldn’t discount the organizing we do for Everglades Earth First and Food Not Bombs and everything else that is on the calendar and is organized through the center. Fine, hold it against us because you don’t like art and hoola hoops and varying opinions. If you want to write us off because of a disagreement with someone else’s viewpoints and that I tried to clarify misunderstandings and welcome your opinion, then that’s your choice.
IV. Lastly, if you’re over the “activist scene,” fine, but at least we are trying to do something positive and work through the misunderstandings that may arise in order to mutually affect something bigger and better than our petty differences.
Sequoia,
As I said in an email to Hawk, I do not excuse anything oppressive, misguided or insulting Penny may have said, but the response she wrote to Hawk’s email seems much more rational and understanding than what he has written. And, for whatever it is worth, in that letter, she claims that was not her intention.
In whatever way the event or what she said was oppressive than it is my desire to address that and attempt to remedy it to where it doesn’t happen again. Obviously there were misunderstandings and a vast difference of opinions on the subject matter.
I still don’t see how writing the whole of the activist center off over this one event is rational or any of the arguments against the group are sound. But once again, that is your and Hawk’s prerogative. At any rate, there is apparently nothing more I can say that is of use here since so much I have said has gone unheard.
I said I was writing it off, and for more than one thing. Sequoia will do as she pleases.
All wasn’t unheard. Penny does things she doesn’t intend to do but she’s more rational and understanding than I am. I’m clear.
What makes you think I wouldn’t post anything where you made sense if I posted your last comments. These last two were just slams.
I think everyone needs to chill out because the direction this is taking is way lame.
The point that Jordan and others are trying to make is that they don’t want to be lumped in with that movie and that belief system simply because it was shown at a center that claims to be a public space. Thats cool and I understand that, however, Penny and others made it clear that my opinion doesn’t matter because they’re only attacking the mainstream. My point was that in order to change an industry the consumer needs to take responsibility and subscribe to and support the products that they prefer, in this case Feminist porn.
When I told Miranda that I’d love to do a night there on good porn, she seemed hesitant to give me the go ahead and reminded me that as long as it was with the space’s mission, etc. as if the movie they had just shown was supportive of their mission at all. I don’t feel it was, nor the discussion following.
None of these people watch porn, buy porn or are involved in the porn industry. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised (and I’m gathering this by the reactions) if this was the first porn that they have ever seen. What an introduction.
Also, I invite anyone from the space or interwebs to read about my experiences in “mainstream” porn: http://sequoiaredd.com/blog/topics/mainstream-porn/
I am so glad to read Sequoia’s comment about overhearing me say something about Andrea Dworkin and the far right, now that helps me to understand where Hawk came up with the idea that I am working on some ordinance and am with the far right(??). This was really confusing to me, I didn’t know if he was misinformed about me or was simply just making stuff up to be vindictive. It seems that what happened is that part of a conversation was overheard and was misconstrued, and unfortunately inaccuracies about me have been publicized.
After the discussion Monday night, I was in a personal conversation with someone *talking about* (not advocating) a wave of anti-porn activism in the 80′s. Andrea Dworkin and Catherine McKinnon worked on an ordinance that “proposed to treat pornography as a violation of women’s civil rights, and to allow women harmed by pornography to seek damages through a lawsuit in civil court.” (inspired by the experience of Linda Boreman, of Deep Throat fame, who later spoke publicly about being coerced into the making of the film). Unfortunately, they got into bed with the religious right to get it passed; that caused a rift among feminists. (Can’t swear to these details, but this is the gist of what I remember reading about it).
Anyway, bottom line is, as I said in my email to Hawk, I am not working on some ordinance and I’m not part of right wing conservatism. If you don’t like me or what I say or do, that’s fine, but please do not spread untruths about me. I’m also not sure why it’s implied in the post that I think I’m doing sex worker activism – I made no claims of such, although I think sex worker rights and safety are important.
Sequoia,
I’m sorry if it came across that I was saying your opinion doesn’t matter because we were talking about mainstream porn. It seemed to me that what you had to offer was heard and appreciated, and there was a place for that.
That said, the film was about the products and effects of the mainstream porn industry on society and individuals, and so I attempted to keep that in focus while facilitating a discussion about the movie.
As far as my comments that have offended you, I will take what you’ve said into consideration. I would like to meet with you, to talk about it and learn from the experience. Please let me know if you are open to this.
Penny
Hey Hawk, Sequoia, and everyone else,
Since the night heron, and my name have been brought into this, i feel like i need to comment, although i have little faith that you wont just write off whatever i say. regardless, i want to respond and ask that you take me for what i say and not try to interpret my words into meaning something else. at the risk of bringing ya’lls criticism down on me personally in addition to the Night Heron, i have to say that i really feel like you came into that event on the defensive, and no matter how the discussion went you would have been shit talking us after you left. afterwards i approached you because i wanted to genuinely thank you for coming ( i said i thought it was brave to attend an event that you felt was critical of you and your chosen profession) and i was sincere when i said you should do an event, and yeah, maybe i am a bit awkward of a person, and i have a lot of social anxiety, and im human for godsakes, but i definitely encouraged you to host your own event and all i said was it should fit into our mission statement, which is the requirement for all events. i DID NOT insinuate that what you wanted to do wouldnt fit into that…. i also said that i, personally(and i think a lot of people there that night as well) was interested in hearing different viewpoints on the subject. i am really saddened and confused that ya’ll chose this medium to voice your complaints. i think as a group we are VERY open to criticism but sending that email out to the anti-racist reading group, (and taking things talked about IN the anti-racist reading group completely out of context, to back up your argument) and posting it on your blog was unnecessary and inflammatory. trashing the Night Heron as a whole just because you didnt like the way one event went, seems pretty unfair when you both know the broad range of events we have, and it seems like you would understand the work and love that goes into running the place. your critiques would have been welcome in a less shit-talky, more constructive way. you both seem to think Penny is this evil “feminazi” (a term i find very offensive and invalidating, by the way) uptight prude trying to put all sex workers in jail. if either of you had made any attempt to talk to her you would have found out that she is NOT that person. she was totally interested in hearing your perspective and made a sincere attempt to create a space where an open dialog could happen. you didnt agree with the film, or, apparently the discussion, or anything that happened that night but does that really give you the right to make all these false assumptions about Penny, or the Night Heron in general?
also, just touching on the subject of violence in the film,it’s hard to imagine that you could say that a man fucking a woman while shoving her head in a toilet and hitting her calling her a bitch and a whore, is not violent, or couldnt conceivably be encouraging of violence against women. the violent parts of the film were NOT just the parts taken from kink.com and anyone reading this should watch the film and decide for themselves… (its called The Price of Pleasure) i’m not saying that i agree with everything in the film,or that it was unbiased (just as your comments and feelings are not unbiased either) but its misleading to say the only violent parts were the BDSM parts.
this has gotten pretty long so i guess theres a good chance it wont be posted. i tried to keep it concise but you’ve given me a lot to want to respond to, and theres a lot more i wish i could say, which is why the internet is a shitty way to communicate. im assuming that since you told penny not to communicate with you further, that you wouldnt be very open to talking to me either.
the last point i’d like to make is that i have seen A LOT of porn in my life and you should know better than to assume someone hasn’t done sexwork, just because they dont out themselves in a discussion group.
Miranda.
“does that really give you the right to make all these false assumptions about Penny, or the Night Heron in general?”
The movie, the way it was presented, the group she promoted, I don’t think I’m too off base. As far as you falsely assuming I am slamming Night Heron as a whole, I wrote: “This letter is to the charter of Night Heron and not to particular individuals.” I wrote to the charter of the group, get it?
Since you want to still bring up that I wrote to the racist group, and as I’ve mentioned to others since then, you’ll remember I wrote “I’ve written to the group’s yahoo address without response.” Hope that cleared it up.
The “complaints” as you say were just instance written in a blog post. Blogs are mediums for a lot of things. Anarchist that get easily offended. That’s a post in itself.
Now for the icing. I have even less respect for someone there who was a sex worker and didn’t speak out against that movie. Outing themselves is their choice but if there was a time to do it, then would have been a perfect opportunity and would have made a timely point. They would certainly have my respect and support in whatever followed them afterwards.
I’m over this issue. You guys feel free to keep backtracking and voicing how it really was. The last thing we need to do is come there and listen to this shit all over again.
I guess if you buddy up with or promote stoppornculture.org you promote this too.
http://stoppornculture.org/watch/
Furry Girl says it best: http://www.feminisnt.com/2010/want-to-play-bingo-with-the-antis/
For those that still think I may be brainwashed by the patriarchy…or something